My FIGGI Life with Jeanne

Rooibos Skin & Health Superstar

Episode Summary

Jeanne talks to the Rooibos expert, Dr. Mariska Lilly, to learn more about the scientifically proven benefits of this little miracle worker that enriches all FIGGI skincare products.

Episode Notes

Jeanne talks about her first love: Rooibos! Regularly featured in the FIGGI social media feed, blog posts, and enriching all FIGGI skincare products - it was time to  learn more about it. Dr. Mariska Lilly, the Rooibos expert, features in this episode and explains the unique composition of Rooibos and how science has proven its health benefits. Originally considered a tea we learn this is actually a herb. Dr. Lilly explains the cancer prevention properties of Rooibos, the positive effects its been proven to have on gut health, and most importantly, the proven effects on skincare. Its amazing anti-inflammatory and antimicrobial properties makes it a powerful antioxidant and a superhero in any skincare routine.

Dr. Mariska Lilly can be researched via the Cape Peninsula University Website, where you can also learn more about the ongoing Rooibos studies.

The South African Rooibos Council deserves a huge shout out! Check out all the cool ways you can incorporate Rooibos into your daily routine.

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Episode Transcription

Dr Mariska Lilly

Jeanne: [00:00:00] Hello my FIGGI goddess, wondering about the Rooibos miracle worker that I'm always on about? Well, today we answer pressing questions about this little superstar that enriches all Figgy skincare products. We're talking to the expert on Rooibos to learn more about what science tells us about its miraculous benefits for skin and overall health. Stay tuned. 

Dr. Lilly: Welcome Goddess to your Sacred Space. This is my FIGGI Life podcast where we openly discuss life's wins and losses on our journeys to self-discovery. This is your best life. This is your Figgi life. And now here is your host Jeanne.

Jeanne: With no further ado, let me introduce our guest. The Rooibos expert, Dr. Mariska Lilly. In 2014, she joined [00:01:00] the Now Applied and Microbial Health Biotechnology Institute at South Africa's Cape Peninsula University of Technology as a researcher. In 2017, the Proteomics Research Unit was created under her leadership.

She has so many Rooibos based projects, which include the assessment of the chemo prevention properties of Rooibos herbal teas against UVB induced skin damage, investigating the anti-inflammatory effects of Rooibos teas in the pre and post exposure UVB cell models, and critical assessments of the effect of Rooibos polyphenols on gut.

She's currently leading groundbreaking research into Rooibos nano-technology that could have significant benefits in skincare. She's received multiple research grants for research into the health benefits of Rooibos including funding from the South African Rooibos Council. . We are so, so happy to have you today. Thank you so much for joining. 

Dr. Lilly: Thank you so much for having me, Jeanne I'm [00:02:00] really looking forward to speaking with

Jeanne: I think this is going to be such an interesting conversation, especially because we are talking about Rooibos; What it is, and why we use it. So before we get into the nitty gritty of it, let's talk about what is Rooibos I had so many conversations and I've read so many articles that tell me Rooibos is a herb, it's a tea... What is it? Is it a herb? Is it a tea? Can you define it for us? 

Dr. Lilly: So most of South Africa still has a habit of referring to all leafy beverages, steeped in hot water as tea. But strictly speaking, the word tea only refers to a beverage that comes from the Camellia Sinensis plant. The black tea. So Rooibos is actually a herb and herbal teas are actually referred to as Teazaan 

Jeanne: So we are talking about the normal black tea, the Earl Grays and so on. That's a tea. 

Dr. Lilly: That's a tea. 

Jeanne: But for robos, it's a herb, right?

Dr. Lilly: It's a herb, and when steeped in water its called a Teazan. 

Jeanne: This is such a good choice to talk about then today, because I think that's what makes Rooibos so unique. Even when we have guests for dinner, it's different, completely [00:03:00] different than a tea. I'm not a tea person at all. I don't like the taste and the flavor, but Rooibos looks different, it smells different, and it's got a very, not a sweet taste, but a very subtle taste that makes it different from any other. 

Dr. Lilly: So the thing with Rooibos that gives its unique smell or taste is also due to its polyphenol content. Your Aspalathin which is only found in Rooibos and then Nothofagin , which is found in Rooibos and in New Zealand, Red Beach Tree.

Jeanne: That's super interesting because I think this also leads into the specific protection for Rooibos because it has been declared or it has been given the status of a protected designation. Can you tell us what that exactly is? I know it relates obviously to the fact that Rooibos is native to South Africa and only found in a really small part of South Africa.

Dr. Lilly: So Rooibos is endemic to the Cape Floral Kingdom of South Africa, which is an internationally recognized [00:04:00] biodiversity hotspot. So it's only found in the mountainous, the rugged mountainous areas of the Cedarburg region of South Africa, where the winters are very cold and summers very hot which makes it very rare and special plant. Rooibos is the first South African product to receive protected designation of origin, PDO status from the EU. So PDO identifies and links a product to a region associated with its unique quality or reputation, specifically in that area. So the registration further means that the word Rooibos can only be used to refer to the dried leaves of pure Rooibos that's farmed in the relevant municipal areas of the Western and Northern Cape.

Jeanne: So that really means that you can't just take a Rooibos seed and plant it, say for example, in France because that's not the the origin, right? It only grows in this small part, and that's why it has this protected stamp . 

Dr. Lilly: Yes. Yes. And I think people have tried to cultivate it somewhere else. They don't grow that [00:05:00] well. Cederberg has a specific climate and also what was found is that if you plant or cultivate it somewhere else, it changes its whole polyphenol content. So it might be that you don't have the same amount of polyphenols.

Jeanne: Oh wow. That's Interesting. 

Dr. Lilly: Yeah. 

Jeanne: So it won't be as effective.

Dr. Lilly: It depends. I know they really struggle to cultivate Rooibos anywhere else. And if cultivated it might have different properties. 

Jeanne: Okay, so I think what makes, again, Rooibos so significant to me, you know, we have a word in Afrikaans, which is the native language of South Africa, that we call a "boereraat." It doesn't translate as well in English . You just don't get that same feeling. You can say home remedy or a culture cure, but it's not the same as a "boereraat." It doesn't sound the same. A lot of these home remedies work because people believe they work. But with Rooibos there's so much scientific evidence and research of its amazing properties.

Dr. Lilly: Yes, so a lot of the properties have been [00:06:00] scientifically proven in vitro in a petri dish, as well as in vivo in animal studies. Specifically looking at antioxidant properties and anti-inflammatory properties, and also chemo prevention or pre-cancer properties. 

Jeanne: So if we are talking about antioxidants and polyphenols in skin care specifically, what makes Rooibos different from other skincare ingredients that have these qualities? We see this a lot in green tea, some types of algae, vitamins A and E. How is it different? Why is it better than using these other ingredients? 

Dr. Lilly: I think it's different because of its unique polyphenol content. Like I said, the Aspalathin and Nothafagin is only found in, or mainly found in, in your Rooibos plant. I think it's maybe not just that. What we've also seen in our research, if we purify those to compounds and use them separately we don't get the same effect as when you we use the whole extract. These two are not the only polyphenols. There's a few [00:07:00] others as well, and I mean, that's the only the ones that we can analyze. So we've seen that the extract works better if all its compounds work synergistically to have the effects that Rooibos gives .

Jeanne: So definitely a unique baby, a unique composition and a unique way of helping us out in our skin care routine. 

Dr. Lilly: Yes. Yes.

Jeanne: So now that we understand the polyphenols and the antioxidants in Rooibos and how it relates to our skin care, why do we see so many baby products with Rooibos in it? Why is that so good for their little sensitive skin? 

Dr. Lilly: So I think because it's a natural product, that is why I think it's used in many of the baby creams and also, except for its antioxidant activity, it's got the anti-inflammatory response. So I think a lot of babies with the bum creams and things like that, and soaps, they do get eczema or some redness or in the skin. And Rooibos has been shown to have antiinflammatory [00:08:00] properties. 

Jeanne: And I think I also used a lot of Rooibos products for my baby when she was born because it really just worked so well to just relieve those little irritants on her skin and the redness and the chafing, especially from the diapers. It's such a wonderful product to use for that. So we see Rooibos in many skincare products these days, especially South African based lines. And I think one of the big questions always in skincare is, what can I do about my acne? How can I relieve my acne? Can Rooibos help? Does Rooibos extract help for acne? And if so, how?

Dr. Lilly: So acne starts by inflammation in the skin and then your skin barrier gets damaged , you could also have bacteria causing that acne or also just eczema and things like that. So the whole idea how Rooibos works with that is on the barrier integrity of your skin and also on the anti-inflammatory [00:09:00] properties. The Aspalathin studies show that Rooibos actually increases your barrier integrity. So infection agents can't protrude...

Jeanne: and the barrier integrity is that little protective seal we have in our skin, right? That helps all the goodness to stay inside. 

Dr. Lilly: That is the interlinking of your cells, of your epidermis. Between your cells there's specific proteins. It's called tight junction proteins that actually link your cells closely together, and any infection or inflammation causes decrease in that specific barrier integrity between your cells. So, and if that barrier is weakened, it's like your immune system. If your immune system is off, you are more prone to infections. And that is the same with your skin. Your skin is basically like your immune system. 

Jeanne: Your protective body, your protection from the outside world. So in terms of acne, as I understand, of course, a lot of acne is caused by an underlying inflammation, so I would assume that just as it helps for a sensitive baby skin, it can reduce that inflammation and reducing that [00:10:00] inflammation will also help in preventing more breakouts or just regulating them to perhaps not be cystic breakout? But rather smaller pimples that are more superficial? 

Dr. Lilly: Yes, to reduce the inflammation. And also, your pimple could become infected with bacteria, so it has been shown that Rooibos is antibacterial. I've also done studies in my laboratory actually looking at the antifungal properties of Rooibos, and it's indeed antifungal as well.

Jeanne: Oh, yay. It just gets better. It just keeps getting better. 

Dr. Lilly: We we focused on a specific amount of plant pathogens actually, but it actually showed that it's not just reducing or, inhibiting the growth of the bacteria, it's actually damaging the spores so that the fungi spores can't germinate.

Jeanne: So, you know, I, I say in every single one of my blog posts and on social media and in my podcast, Rooibos is such a wonderful thing to have in your life and I'm so glad you're here to tell us that I am right. It's such a [00:11:00] great thing to have in your life. So I think the other big buzzwords these days in skincare are AHAs and BHAs, and we see a lot of conversation about exfoliating and no longer using the physical exfoliants. Are there AHAs in Rooibos ? And if so, does it really make a difference in topical applications? 

Dr. Lilly: There was a study done that showed that Rooibos actually has got very low AHA levels. So it could be that it might not have an effect. A lot of our research is looking at the specific concentration of our extracts and the specific polyphenols in them. And for any pharmaceutical compound, if the concentration is too high, it could actually have a damaging effect. And if the concentration is too low, it could actually have no effect. 

Jeanne: So higher isn't always better and natural isn't always better than synthetic, right? 

Dr. Lilly: Yes. So in that case with the AHA I know a study that was done said that it was too [00:12:00] low to have a significant effect. That is as far as my knowledge goes on this. 

Jeanne: We had to ask that question in terms of the skincare conversation at the moment, I'm sure. Next week or next year or next month, we will be onto something else in the skincare community. Some other great IT ingredient for the time being. So if we are looking at the exploration of the antioxidant properties of Rooibos specifically, let's stick to skincare and topical applications. Is there a difference between using a Green Rooibos Extract versus a fermented Rooibos extract in skincare? Is one better than the other or do they have more or less properties? 

Dr. Lilly: There's a difference in the polyphenol content of your green and your fermented extracts. So my studies always included both unfermented and fermented. Your green and your red extracts. Sorry. Let me just get a sip of Rooibos. So because of the difference in polyphenol [00:13:00] content, there is a difference in their application. Also the main compounds that I spoke about, that Aspalathin and Nothafagin are much higher in your unfermented extract than in the fermented one. And we do see in our in vitro studies where we have our skin cultures in our petri dishes, looking at UV exposure we tested both unfermented and fermented. And in that study we actually saw that the unfermented has got a better antiinflammatory effect for that specific experiment that we did.

Jeanne: Just a side note here to say that we would like to remind you all FIGGI skincare products only use the green extract. So I feel like we were heading in the right direction there. So the next question that we have for you is, you've mentioned recently in previous interviews that you believe Rooibos' power is due to its unique antioxidant properties. How is it different from other antioxidant skincare ingredients that we see a lot about, like green tea, algae extracts and vitamin E and [00:14:00] C why is this antioxidant property so unique? 

Dr. Lilly: I think it's not the antioxidant property that's so unique. I think it's a polyphenols that is unique in this case. We've tested both the unfermented and fermented, both have antioxidant properties, so we test them for free radical scavenging on the extract itself. I just got some data back yesterday and there the unfermented one also has higher antioxidants. 

Jeanne: Oh, awesome. And we're the first ones to know. Okay, so let's move on and look then more towards polyphenols. Again, we've asked you previously, is polyphenols the same thing as antioxidants? We also see this a lot in skincare. You have to use skincare products with polyphenols, and they usually refer to green tea, pomegranates, grapes. This is again, leading back to what you've just explained to us, right? The polyphenols in Rooibos are really significant because they're only found in Rooibos. 

Dr. Lilly: So those polyphenols are only found in Rooibos and they have antioxidant activity [00:15:00] as well as anti-inflammatory activity. And the anti-cancer properties is more on the prevention of cancer. Chronic inflammation is one of the hallmarks of cancer. So yeah, fighting your inflammation first could prevent those cells to become cancer. 

Jeanne: Okay, so we focused a lot on skincare now, and also the topical application of Rooibos extracts. Obviously we also drink the tea. So what can it do for your health by ingesting Rooibos either through tea or a mixture that you make for yourself? Let's talk about that a little bit. There are some studies that speak to the cancer benefits of Rooibos many studies actually, and you've leaded some of them. So what exactly are these benefits and is it safe to say it can help prevent cancer in in any way? 

Dr. Lilly: So, I mean, once you have cancer, that is a very complex situation. A lot of our studies focus on cancer prevention, your chemo [00:16:00] prevention, and that's where Rooibos comes in with its anti-inflammatory properties. Chronic inflammation is one of the hallmarks of cancer. So if you have chronic inflammation, whether it's in your gut or wherever, it could lead to cancerous cells. So Rooibos has been shown to be an anti-inflammatory. 

Jeanne: When you drink it, how exactly does this work? Can I drink one cup of Rooibos a day and feel the benefits? Or are we heading towards three to six to eight cups a day? . 

Dr. Lilly: There was a study done that by Prof. Marnevick in our research group actually, that showed that six cups of Rooibos a day is beneficial.

Jeanne: That's the good point you should aim for. Okay, then. I'm good. I'm fine. . 

Dr. Lilly: So as I was saying, that's for drinking. It's not just for cancer, there's been studies done on diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and a lot of inflammatory bowel diseases. 

Jeanne: That's actually what I wanted to ask you next is about diabetes. How exactly does it help? We now understand for cancer prevention inflammation is definitely not a good thing. Drinking and ingesting robots can help with that inflammation. How does it then help in terms of [00:17:00] diabetes? 

Dr. Lilly: So again experimental and clinical evidence show that your oxidative stress, your endothelial dysfunction, that barrier dysfunction that I spoke about and chronic inflammation are interrelated into the pathophysiology of type two diabetes. So there have been studies done that's shown that the Rooibos can improve glucose levels. A study with green Rooibos has shown that it lowered blood glucose levels in animal studies. It's also shown improved insulin activity by also reducing your inflammation, oxidative stress, which are both causal factors that underlie the development of type two diabetes as well as cardiovascular diseases.

Jeanne: Okay, so I was just gonna say, I think this is maybe all of the underlying things we can actually talk about in terms of cardiovascular disease as well, right? 

Dr. Lilly: Yes. Because Rooibos also protects the heart by suppressing your vascular inflammation and the build up in your artery [00:18:00] walls. So there has also been a study looking at the effect of Rooibos on specifically the oxidative stress and some biochemical parameters in adults at a risk for cardiovascular diseases. It's showing that the consumption, in this case was the fermented traditional Rooibos, actually significantly improved the lipid profile of those participants, as well as the redox status, both relevant to your heart disease in adults that's at risk for developing cardiovascular diseases. 

Jeanne: Okay. And when we talking about the lipid levels, how can we better explain that to our listeners to understand?

Dr. Lilly: So like the proteins, your cell also has a lot of lipids, and lipids are mainly secured in your cell membranes. So a lot of your oxidative stress also affect the lipid profile of your cell. So Rooibos also improves thatin the cellular membrane. 

Jeanne: Interesting, super interesting facts actually. And are there any promising or [00:19:00] other promising benefits of consuming Rooibos. Know we've spoken about what has been scientifically proven, but one I can obviously think of is, especially in Europe, where we have very long summers very long winters. Gosh, I, I wish we had long summers, long winters and short summers short summers, it's a great way of keeping yourself hydrated because you're not ingesting cold water and it's basically water, right? Because it doesn't have any caffeine. It's naturally free. 

Dr. Lilly: No caffeine and it's very low in tannins as well. So Rooibos actually does not stain your teeth so you can drink as many cups as you want, it will not stain your teeth.

Jeanne: Wonderful. So it's the perfect perfect thing to drink if you're going for your seasonal teeth whitening sessions because you have nothing to worry about. Take it up instead of coffee. So let's talk a little bit about Rooibos and gut health. I feel like we're in a stage where so many people, especially women friends, that I know and myself have a lot of issues with IBS and [00:20:00] digestive problems because of stress and anxiety. But I do feel better when I consume Rooibos tea, almost like it settles my stomach a little bit more. Is there truth to that? Can Rooibos help with your gut health in this way? 

Dr. Lilly: We are actually currently doing a study looking at intestinal cell line, stimulating it with a inflammatory response bacteria, and we actually found that Rooibos is anti-inflammatory in that sense. So a lot of those diseases are also inflammatory based, but a lot of gut issues are caused by inflammation whether it's from the bowel, bacteria, or some other genetic disorder. So I think I would say Rooibos is more supportive of your gut health. Also, because of its anti-inflammatory properties, we actually did a study that we hope to publish soon where we actually used E. Coli Lipopolysaccharides to induce inflammation in an intestinal cell line, and we pretreated the cells with Rooibos. And also treated it with Rooibos after stimulating the inflammatory response. It actually [00:21:00] showed that it reduces those inflammatory cytokines. We actually used a corticoid one of the products on the market, a pharmaceutical product in the market, and we actually had better results with Rooibos. So I think what we also saw is Rooibos also prevents your inflammation. So it protects against inflammation, and that is what we also talked about in that barrier integrity. So it's the same with your gut. 

Jeanne: Yes, and it's so important because I've heard many doctors and people in the medical community refer to your gut as your second brain because there's so much happening there and it's got such an influence on your body and your overall health. So I'm glad to know that it's not just me thinking that Rooibos is making me feel better. There is actually, again, some scientific studies and proof behind it. 

Dr. Lilly: So you can drink it, put it on your face, scrub your feet, . Enjoy it at many levels. 

Jeanne: I am super interested in this research [00:22:00] that you are doing. I watched the videos on the South African Rooibos website , on the Facebook and also the EWN interview. It's so interesting. So I've also read about your latest study where you are talking about nanotechnology that you are hoping to develop and which you hope will be ready for market within two to three years. Can you tell us a little bit more about what this entails and what this means for Rooibos in skincare?

Dr. Lilly: So Rooibos because of its molecular structure of the polyphenols sometimes has a low absorption capacity or bioavailability. So the entire amount that you introduce might not be incorporated. It's lower than the amount actually in the product. So with the nanotechnology, we want to actually pack Rooibos inside a lipid molecule so it actually resembles the cells. So of the smaller size and because it's inside this lipid molecule, it will increase its bio [00:23:00] availability. And also absorption into your cells where it will be released. 

Jeanne: So this sounds a lot to me, like a kind of similar conversation that we've seen also in the skincare community now about Sodium Hyaluronic Acid and making sure you're using the right type that has the right type of molecules or size of molecules to be better able to penetrate the skin.

Dr. Lilly: We are trying to get it to be more effective and more powerful. So it's like a nano vesicle. It'll also increase the stability of the polyphenols and it'll also increase your shelf life in the end because polyphenols do tend to oxidize. So increase your shelf life, increase the bio availability, and penetration through the skin. So we are busy with that experiments at the stage. So we've almost finalized the nano particle for the next two to three years. We'll be testing in vitro in our cell cultures. 

Jeanne: That is so awesome. I can't wait to check back in two or three years and to see how far it's [00:24:00] come and what we can expect from Rooibos next. Although I don't personally believe this will be the last thing we discover or that we can do with Rooibos. I think there's so much that we can still do and research. One of the things I really wanted to ask you, especially because we are talking about lifestyle and skincare, is there any anti-aging benefits to Rooibos? 

Dr. Lilly: Remember I said there's an intrinsic and an extrinsic factors of aging. So Rooibos will definitely help with the extrinsic factors because of its photo protective properties, the UV and the anti-inflammatory. So I mean sun and environment also add to your aging process. So in that sense, most definitely. 

Jeanne: Yeah. And I think that's one of the most important things to actually say about skincare and aging, and how skincare products help with the aging process. I, I just have to say I'm a self confessed skincare or sunscreen maniac I'm the person that reapplies three times a day, and I have five different types in my [00:25:00] handbag. 

Dr. Lilly: So our idea is to have a sun block containing Rooibos that is actually tested clinically in our laboratory. That is what we are busy with. Also to look at the specific concentration that's needed. So for a pre- and post-sun. For your blocking and prevention of inflammation, and also post-sun because sometimes you do go into the sun and you do have the afterburn, unfortunately.

Jeanne: Especially kids, unfortunately, you try. You try and keep them out of the sun but they do burn sometimes.

Dr. Lilly: Yeah. So the idea is then also to have a after sun containing a specifically robust concentration that is tested to reduce that redness and that inflammation of the sun. 

Jeanne: So let's talk a little bit about Rooibos and how we use it in everyday life. What are your favorite ways of using Rooibos? Do you have some tips and tricks for us that we may not know about?

Dr. Lilly: Well, I drink a lot of Rooibos both in summer and winter iced tea, [00:26:00] but I've also seen on the South African Rooibos Council, something that I would like to try is they give a recipe for a scrub . So that's more a mechanical scrub.

Jeanne: Oh, so they used the tea leaves or something? 

Dr. Lilly: They used the actual tea leaves.

Jeanne: I actually would like to try, I think I'm gonna try that as well. I love using Rooibos as my kind of cleansing water after I wash my face. I just pop a teabag into my water. Sometimes I'll actually even put a few teabags in my bath water. It's not the most visually pleasing bath of all times, but it feels wonderful and it smells great. 

Dr. Lilly: It smells great. And also for eyes, for sensitive sore eyes, or sometimes a lot of people get some eczema on the skin. 

Jeanne: Oh, that's so true.

Dr. Lilly: Yeah. You can just pop a tea bag onto the skin. 

Jeanne: Oh, I'll try that because my little girl actually has that problem. She gets really dry eyelids or around her eyebrows and I think I'm actually gonna try that for her. She loves facials, so I'm sure she'll just lie [00:27:00] quietly and instead of 

Dr. Lilly: instead of the cucumber just put on someo teabag.

Jeanne: I would like to ask you one final question. You've told us about the nano technology that you're hoping to finalize in the next two to three years, but are there other things that you see or foresee for Rooibos in the next five years or things that you would like to see and like to commence?

Dr. Lilly: So I know that the South African Rooibos Council is also funding studies on Rooibos and athletic performance. I mean for athletes, if you train hard that you actually also produce a lot of oxidative stress inside your body. So I know they fund a study that supports the athletic performance. I know they also started funding a study looking at mental health for Alzheimer's but that study I think is still in the laboratory in vitro. So, yeah. And also alleviating allergies. There's a lot of different of things, projects being funded by the South African Rooibos Council.

Jeanne: Yes. They do an amazing job [00:28:00] and the ladies there are just incredible. Actually, when I asked them to join the podcast, they referred me to you. And when I saw your name was Lilly. My little girl's name is Lily. It's your last name. But I thought, okay, it must be fate. I would really like our listeners to also know that it really takes a lot to do this Rooibos research. It takes a lot of funding, time, commitment, people, and I actually initially went through the South African Rooibos Council who I understand also fund some of your studies. So can you tell us a little bit more? who is helping you with funding and the difficulties that you have with funding and where our listeners can reach you if they maybe have something to help you out with or would like to assist in funding. 

Dr. Lilly: Yeah. Thank you. So I think all over the world, I mean, it is a struggle to get funding for your research. And I was very fortunate that the Rooibos Council has funded two [00:29:00] of my projects in the past, so they've been really great at funding a lot of the research that's been done in South Africa. So besides that, we basically have the National Research Foundation, but that is for funding for everything. So, yes. I think what makes the Rooibos Council special, it's a Rooibos related, specifically Rooibos, related projects and answering questions. 

Jeanne: Yes. 

Dr. Lilly: Like the properties. 

Jeanne: So we just want to then give a shout out to the South African Rooibos Council. Thank you so much for everything you're doing to further Rooibos and the studies of Rooibos especially for people like me in the skincare community. We're super grateful. So where can our listeners find you, Dr. Lilly? Where can they go? Maybe you have an email address. Well, probably not your email address, but your website or a social media follow . 

Dr. Lilly: We are the Applied Micro and Health Bio Technology Institute and we are on the Cape Peninsula University of Technology. We have a website on there, so if you Google our institute and [00:30:00] CPU you will find all of the research and researchers in our institute. 

Jeanne: And just to make it a lot easier, we will also put some links of this for you in the description of this podcast episode. So you can just create direct links to that and see all the wonderful things that they have been doing in terms of Rooibos. So thank you so much for joining us on this podcast today, Dr. Lilly. And thank you for enjoying a nice cup of homemade South African brewed Rooibos tea with me. It's always such a nice way for me to have a little bit of home with me, just a piece of home. Thank you for your time, and I hope to see you on the podcast soon again, or when you're ready to share your new research with us. That would be so interesting. 

Dr. Lilly: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It was really nice talking to you.[00:31:00]